fool
I've almost played Genesis to completion, and I have some thoughts on how I think it could be improved, since I found a few things throughout the game that hampered my enjoyment of it and/or I feel could be improved.First of all, a universal rule of games that use stat/skill trees is that there be an easily-accessible reset button in case you screw up, which many players will, especially in Genesis where it's numerical values of stats that you're playing with rather than skills. A few misplaced stat points can completely screw you over later in the game without you realizing you did anything wrong, at which point your only choice is to use the Divine Breath (which only gives you a single extra chance to not screw up, and only works on a single character) or . (You may have to use the latter option anyway if you messed up stat progression badly enough on more than one character) Skill trees always make me extremely nervous for this reason, because I can never know if the stat I'm improving is a good choice, and if it is, if it leads to a build that suits my playstyle. An easy, free reset button is very relieving for this reason, since I know that if I mess something up and it comes back to bite me, all I have to do is make one click and I can rework my layout to be usable. But otherwise, I have no choice to restart. (It doesn't help that I'm a perfectionist, so every stat point is important to me...) Furthermore, the whole point of the stat builds is that they're useful in some situations but are bad choices in others. Without the ability to reset, you're stuck with your build only being useful half of the time.In fact, if stat points could be reset at any time, that would give Genesis a very interesting gameplay mechanic that I don't think has been used before -- something like the inverse of Final Fantasy VII's materia system: would be completely malleable, to be reworked to suit different situations, while are static between characters. Thoughts/opinions?Also, this may just be due to my own incompetence at tactical RPGs, but the game is . Normally I'd assume that's just the way the game is intended to be (a la Last Scenario), but a lot of other users on this forum seem to say that it's too . However, I find that my characters die too quickly, since most enemies can chew through them like they're wet paper and the only form of healing is Grand Blessing, which heals a pitiful amount at the endgame and can only be used on one character per turn. However, attacks can do little more that whittle down bosses' massive HP totals, which then heal back to full if you don't attack them constantly since HP regeneration actually restores something worthwhile due to their high totals. Plus there's the fact that in many encounters, you're outnumbered, which can lead to you getting swarmed...I'm not sure if this is just because I'm bad at tactical RPGs, I have bad builds, or what... (I'm using balanced Neraine, sniper Gelyan, and magic Sisily -- is this a bad combination? I was hoping for Nera to be the party tank, but it seems like she's not very good for that...) I'm also playing the Kongregate version, not sure if that affects anything.(On a side note, Cerberus really needs to be toned down. Either his stats need to be gimped or Light Speed needs to be removed; as it is, my characters stand zero chance of surviving a single turn from him due to his high attack, and due to his double turns, he can easily regenerate everything I throw at him. I actually had to switch to easy mode just to get past him.)Anyway, those are just my opinions and suggestions after finishing all the storyline battles. Genesis is still exceptionally good for a Flash game, and I am looking forward to the seq
macfluffers
QUOTE (Fool @ Nov 28 2010, 09:17 AM) quotecFirst of all, a universal rule of games that use stat/skill trees is that there be an easily-accessible reset button in case you screw up...QuoteEndQuoteEEndI dispute this. For starters, Ge.ne.sis did have an item that let you reset a characters stats once. That said, if you understand the mechanics and what the stats each do, you should have a projected idea about what you want the character to look like in the end, and there is no need to reset your stats. I'll admit that in your first playthrough, you might have a problem when if you foolishly try to make Sisi a tank or whatever, but that's why you're given the single reset.quoteoQUOTE quotecIn fact, if stat points could be reset at any time, that would give Genesis a very interesting gameplay mechanic that I don't think has been used before -- something like the inverse of Final Fantasy VII's materia system: would be completely malleable, to be reworked to suit different situations, while are static between characters. Thoughts/opinions?QuoteEndQuoteEEndI also disagree about this. One of the challenges is going through the game is that you have to make a team that works well in all situations they'll be thrown in. Otherwise, you could just make a different team of specialists for each stage, and that's not very interesting.quoteoQUOTE quotecAlso, this may just be due to my own incompetence at tactical RPGs, but the game is ......(On a side note, Cerberus really needs to be toned down. Either his stats need to be gimped or Light Speed needs to be removed; as it is, my characters stand zero chance of surviving a single turn from him due to his high attack, and due to his double turns, he can easily regenerate everything I throw at him. I actually had to switch to easy mode just to get past him.)QuoteEndQuoteEEndSomething unique about TRPGs is that there are two solutions to most problems: brawn versus brains. In both realistic and unrealistic tactics, a weaker force can easily defeat a stronger one if it's organized correctly. I imagine you tried to organize your team in a straightforward manner and then lost because of that. This didn't work because Ge.ne.sis is a railroad-style game, and your characters will always be weaker than their opponents, even if you level them up using the side-quest. The only way to win is by using the terrain to your advantage, by arranging your characters so that they fight fitting characters, and by being sure that your characters' builds complement each other so that even if each character is weak, together they are powerful.Cerberus is not too difficult to beat, so long as you know how. Get rid of his regeneration, block him off, pelt him with ranged attacks, and keep your tank comfortable heal
fool
QUOTE quotecI dispute this. For starters, Ge.ne.sis did have an item that let you reset a characters stats once. That said, if you understand the mechanics and what the stats each do, you should have a projected idea about what you want the character to look like in the end, and there is no need to reset your stats. I'll admit that in your first playthrough, you might have a problem when if you foolishly try to make Sisi a tank or whatever, but that's why you're given the single reset.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI addressed this. Yes, you get reset button, and . You have characters and many possible combinations between them. I feel that being forced to restart the is too harsh a punishment for not managing to make a good build (as it is actually pretty hard to do so if you're new to the game). Almost every other game with a skill tree or customizable stats has an easy reset button for precisely this reason.quoteoQUOTE quotecI also disagree about this. One of the challenges is going through the game is that you have to make a team that works well in all situations they'll be thrown in. Otherwise, you could just make a different team of specialists for each stage, and that's not very interesting.QuoteEndQuoteEEndHm... I think you could probably make a valid argument for either side on this, but I do feel that builds should be more interchangeable. If you make a team of, say, a magic Neraine, an endurance Gelyan, and a battlemage Sisily, all three characters are pretty much fixed in that position and cannot adapt to a different build. And I don't really think a single build can be good in all situations. The entire point is that they're balanced; good for some situations, unfavourable in others.I don't play many TBS games though, so I'm not sure if this is too unorthodox or whatever.quoteoQUOTE quotecSomething unique about TRPGs is that there are two solutions to most problems: brawn versus brains. In both realistic and unrealistic tactics, a weaker force can easily defeat a stronger one if it's organized correctly. I imagine you tried to organize your team in a straightforward manner and then lost because of that. [...] Cerberus is not too difficult to beat, so long as you know how. Get rid of his regeneration, block him off, pelt him with ranged attacks, and keep your tank comfortable healthy.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI may not be very used to tactical RPGs, but I'm not a moron. I actually resorted to using the walkthrough, and . I tried blocking the choke point, but even if I summon the High Priestess, due to the fact that he can attack twice. At the end of the first onslaught, she's usually down to ~1000 HP, at which point he finishes her off easily on the second. I presume that an endurance Gely could probably tank Cerberus effectively, but since I was using sniper Gely that wasn't an option. (Again, an example where making builds malleable would be very help
joshyface
QUOTE (macfluffers @ Nov 28 2010, 06:30 PM) quotecI dispute this. For starters, Ge.ne.sis did have an item that let you reset a characters stats once. That said, if you understand the mechanics and what the stats each do, you should have a projected idea about what you want the character to look like in the end, and there is no need to reset your stats. I'll admit that in your first playthrough, you might have a problem when if you foolishly try to make Sisi a tank or whatever, but that's why you're given the single reset.QuoteEndQuoteEEndDespite common thinking, sisi can be a really good tank. If you soulbond her you would be surprised at the amount of damage she does. Let's also not forget her future endgame central perks sound great. I mean 200% magic reflection, i think. quoteoQUOTE quotecCerberus is not too difficult to beat, so long as you know how. Get rid of his regeneration, block him off, pelt him with ranged attacks, and keep your tank comfortable healthy.QuoteEndQuoteEEndor you could just do this.Onto my next reply. quoteo(post=4914:date=Nov 28 2010, 07:42 PM:name=Fool)QUOTE (Fool @ Nov 28 2010, 07:42 PM) quotecI addressed this. Yes, you get reset button, and . You have characters and many possible combinations between them. I feel that being forced to restart the is too harsh a punishment for not managing to make a good build (as it is actually pretty hard to do so if you're new to the game). Almost every other game with a skill tree or customizable stats has an easy reset button for precisely this reason.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI think this issue can easily be fixed by adding one or two more divine breaths, but adding a stat reset button is too much. quoteoQUOTE quotecHm... I think you could probably make a valid argument for either side on this, but I do feel that builds should be more interchangeable. If you make a team of, say, a magic Neraine, an endurance Gelyan, and a battlemage Sisily, all three characters are pretty much fixed in that position and cannot adapt to a different build. And I don't really think a single build can be good in all situations. The entire point is that they're balanced; good for some situations, unfavourable in others.I don't play many TBS games though, so I'm not sure if this is too unorthodox or whatever.QuoteEndQuoteEEndThere is no such thing a perfect team, it's about making on that works with your playstyle. quoteoQUOTE quotecI may not be very used to tactical RPGs, but I'm not a moron. I actually resorted to using the walkthrough, and . I tried blocking the choke point, but even if I summon the High Priestess, due to the fact that he can attack twice. At the end of the first onslaught, she's usually down to ~1000 HP, at which point he finishes her off easily on the second. I presume that an endurance Gely could probably tank Cerberus effectively, but since I was using sniper Gely that wasn't an option. (Again, an example where making builds malleable would be very helpful)QuoteEndQuoteEEndagain this
mokona96
QUOTE (Fool @ Nov 28 2010, 08:42 PM) quotecI may not be very used to tactical RPGs, but I'm not a moron. I actually resorted to using the walkthrough, and . I tried blocking the choke point, but even if I summon the High Priestess, due to the fact that he can attack twice. At the end of the first onslaught, she's usually down to ~1000 HP, at which point he finishes her off easily on the second. I presume that an endurance Gely could probably tank Cerberus effectively, but since I was using sniper Gely that wasn't an option. (Again, an example where making builds malleable would be very helpful)QuoteEndQuoteEEndI'm assuming that you weren't using the Fool's leeching and Nera's Moon Waltz. If you really need help, do as EL did.On another note, welcome to the forum. I'm surprised no one else said
macfluffers
QUOTE (Fool @ Nov 28 2010, 08:42 PM) quotecI may not be very used to tactical RPGs, but I'm not a moron.QuoteEndQuoteEEndSorry if my comment sounded condescending. It's just that a lot of games that are supposed to be strategic can be easily won by making strong characters and muscling through everything. It's that way in RTSs, WRPGs, JRPGs, and even some TRPGs and real-time tactics games. (I know I won a lot of battles in Rome: Total War just because my army was bigger.)It's very easy to see the solution to problems as (strong characters) ---> (victory). Since you expressed an unfamiliarity with TRPGs, I just assumed that you took the more obvious approach to the problem and failed because Ge.ne.sis is designed against that appro
fool
QUOTE quotecI think this issue can easily be fixed by adding one or two more divine breaths, but adding a stat reset button is too much.QuoteEndQuoteEEndHm...this actually gives me an idea. As a compromise, perhaps there could be a repeatable sidequest that rewards the player with a divine breath at the end? That way, resetting your stats is not as simple as a single click, but can still be done as many times as you want.quoteoQUOTE quotecI'm assuming that you weren't using the Fool's leeching and Nera's Moon Waltz. If you really need help, do as EL did.QuoteEndQuoteEEndThis, I feel, is an example of why easy resets are important; certain builds are vital in certain battles. I was using a balanced Nera, which I didn't realize was a bad idea until chapter 5 when I consulted the walkthrough. I actually used the strategy that the guide suggested against Cerberus on Tale Memory, and won easily due to the fact that Nera was invincible due to Essence of Slyn
chamomileess
n regards to your previous point about misclicks and Stat upgrades, wouldn't asking the player to confirm their choice of stat solve this? Otherwise, an Undo button not unlike what we have implemented for the battles that we have now, which will solve the "Oh no I accidentally gave Gely 2 points of magic" is
macfluffers
solution would be to have many possible builds for each character, so that investment in any particular stat is not too detrimental, and if you've made a mistake along the way, it wouldn't be too far off to try to fix some of the damage.But Fool's idea about the sidequest isn't a bad one. Since Ge.ne.sis doesn't use an EXP system, it wouldn't be very abusable, and it wouldn't pose a very large problem towards gameplay as a whole. Since we've been talking about having more sidequests anyway, it seems like it's worth investigating.Of course, the addition of an "undo" button would be easier and simpler, but those ideas aren't contradict
