blah701
But the Fool? I can't see the point. In my first game I made Gelyan have sniper and Sisi have magic builds, so my team's overall tanking ability was less than others. I read ahead to Fool's abilities and hopped that his abilities will come in handy with buffering and tanking role.... but... it didn't work that way. Fool died too fast for it to be efficiently used in battles. Its attacks, compared to Hanged Man, was surprisingly weak. In other words, I had no use for it... half of the game I didn't use it... and my second and third go... I didn't use it at all. Gelyan's endurance build does better job... the only good thing about Fool is his essence, where it grants life steal. But Death has that ability too, and the instances before Death you can use High Priestess as strict support role... in other words, I never had any real use for Fool...And.... doesn't Gelyan already get half the field with his range boosts? I found that Gelyan can be left where he is unless he is about to die... and in Endurance build, it was up there with Nera tanking, so...... nope, still no need for Fool. Also... doesn't Emi already have ridiculous movement? She is like a very inefficient knight in chess... that generates extra energy. So placing her in strategic places never bothered me.... perhaps it is my style. I like to fort around my starting point. Of course, that gets me in trouble with artilleries like bean queen in the beginning. But with Gelyan's endurance build, it wasn't that difficult to make every opponent attack him... Nope, still don't see Fool's real u
[deleted]
so you have a moon walts build, after nera gets near 40 power, she can heal more from life stealing than from moon walts, just with essence of slyness.with gely tanking, you can stick soul pact on him with death, and with armor piercer he can take a very good beating as long as you have 21 energy to spare, since both forms of health leaching stack.also sticking the food by himself with soul pact, he can also tank pretty well if the monster has pretty low defence and evasion, and being as he has a very low base for power, if he survives a few rounds of attacks and the priestess buffs his power a few points, he can dish out some very hefty damage while healing it all back, even against ranged units.i also find the fool useful to use in earlier battles as a "sub out person" such as nera as she runs in to nearly suicide attack on some enemies, and swap her out with the fool as he may be more surviable at that point in the game.but being as this is a strategy game with no single way to win, everyone can find a method that works for them if you work on it long en
EternalLurker
But anyway, I think this thread quite strongly counters the claim that Gelyan's Tarots are not useful enough...which wasn't the original question in this thread, was it? It's become the question in the last two pages...*reads back*Ah, training. Um, no thanks. Even grinding ruins ga
an
Grinding for level will probly break the strategic intend of this game and i think it will ruin the whole idea behind gene
jakemaster64
QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Oct 26 2009, 11:42 PM) quotecIt completely compensates for Gelyan's lack of mobility, which is his weakness, thus making him far and away the most kickass character in Genesis.QuoteEndQuoteEEndAgreed that Gelyan is the best character not only battle awesomeness ... but he has the best personality ever(prime example is right before the Sky Lord side quest where he holds on Neras leg to fly up =] )!!!!quoteo(post=581:date=Oct 27 2009, 12:08 AM:name=An)QUOTE (An @ Oct 27 2009, 12:08 AM) quotecI decided that genesis will not a grinding options to level up. However, I do plan to add longer and more side quests to get more tarots and items to make up for this. There may be an extremely hard dungeon for those who is up for challenge too.Grinding for level will probly break the strategic intend of this game and i think it will ruin the whole idea behind genesis.QuoteEndQuoteEEndThank You i really didn't want grinding because it would make it more... boring i guess.
blah701
Dungeon? How will that work out??? Speaking of... did you hear my message of letting Sisi have water-based element? I wanted to know if that was plaus
an
he dungeon will be similar to Memory battles, however, I plan to add a random compoment to it so not all battle will be the same and it will get progressively harder and harder. About sisily note, here is a spoiler: One of the new ability for Sisily is called Dreams of Rainbows which will deal damage of 3 elements to her enemy. I don't want to give her a pure blue element attack since there will be another Tarot who has high level Blue att
jakemaster64
i can tell that you have already thought of many new tarots... and soul bursts and such... just wondering.. sorry if it was somewhere else and i completely misse
an
he second part will be called Ge.ne.sis: Down the rabbit holes, Jakemas
blah701
Sisi will finally be useful! It was hard for her to land a good hit, compared to Gelyan and Nera. Finally we have a character that can fill the role between Gelyan and Nera..... Magican was good, but he was too one-sides to be of use, and Emi..... well, she was a flying battery most of the time.... and Fool? I think I made my point. Fool was useless.So now we have a carrier-like unit, arcon that is useless, power overwhelming, and Sisi is finally useful! I can't wait for this game!!! (sorry for SC reference) Speaking of..... will Power Overwhelming be moved up the totem pole and given better ability? I always cry whenever I see Nera dying with it on.
EternalLurker
QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 27 2009, 06:59 PM) quotecI think I made my point. Fool was useless.QuoteEndQuoteEEndNo. No you didn't. You merely ignored the posts which quite definitively opposed that cl
blah701
And..... seriously Gelyan doesn't need to move. I think I made it clear before. He covers half the field (and almost 3/4 of the field on smaller fields) in sniper build, and he usually goes into choke and is used for tanking/massive retaliation when in endurance. I honestly don't see how Fool can do anything useful with Gelyan. The only time Fool saved me was when Sisi was in a tight spot... but I could've gotten Emi to serve battery role and finish the game regardless...Read back to my assumptions, I made a full list of why I hate using
EternalLurker
quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotec...in none of my fights I had enough time for Gelyan to dismiss Hanged Man and respawn him after moving.QuoteEndQuoteEEndEntirely true, which is why it's more efficient just to Soulburst him and use the Fool afterwards, especially since the Hanged Man's main strength really is his Soulburst. Point for the Fool.quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotecIn my first game I made Gelyan have sniper and Sisi have magic builds, so my team's overall tanking ability was less than others. I read ahead to Fool's abilities and hopped that his abilities will come in handy with buffering and tanking role.... but... it didn't work that way. Fool died too fast for it to be efficiently used in battles. Its attacks, compared to Hanged Man, was surprisingly weak.QuoteEndQuoteEEndThe Fool can't sit around tanking enemies forever. This is suicide. He has low magical resistances, but high physical resistance. As I've stated many times, this means that a Soul-Bonded Fool is nigh invulnerable against physical enemies, who he'll tank with ease and life-drain using Rod Twirl. If you're not Soul Bonding the Fool, then of course it's crazy to hope he'll be able to tank forever. As for the Hanged Man having better damage output, that depends entirely on the opponent. (Not to mention the fact that at level 20 the Fool has the Endurance of the Hanged Man and attacks 3 times to the Hanged Man's 2.)quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotecthe only good thing about Fool is his essence, where it grants life steal. But Death has that ability too, and the instances before Death you can use High Priestess as strict support role...QuoteEndQuoteEEndDeath's version of life draining is extremely restrictive. Nera has a great physical attack which could benefit from either Vampirism or the Fool's aura, but if you choose the former route via Soul Bonding then you're generally screwing yourself over hard, since you're greatly reducing either Nera's Agility or Power, or perhaps both. Most Nera builds should never be Soul Bonded. As for the High Priestess, her healing does not in any way compensate for the Fool's life draining ability, since the latter can occur battles, which allows units which might not otherwise survive even a single round to make it through multiple rounds. The Fool's aura is far better for anyone with a physical attack, which means anyone who isn't Emi. And since Emi can't survive on the front lines even with the High Priestess' help, this is a clear win for the Fool. The High Priestess' aura is best used the Fool's; it most certainly can't replace it. The same goes for Soul Bonding: a Soul Bonded Fool backed by his own aura, or a Soul Bonded Gelyan Endurance build supported by Essence of Slyness, creates an extremely durable tank. (Arguably a Gelyan Power build can work as well as the Endurance one when fighting multiple foes, since Gelyan can pick and choose his targets to go for the ones who will heal him the most, even if that isn't the one currently threatening him. But that proves even more that the Fool's aura is amazing, since Soul Bonding for the life drain effect would only weaken a Gelyan Power build in terms of damage output.)quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotecAnd.... doesn't Gelyan already get half the field with his range boosts? I found that Gelyan can be left where he is unless he is about to die...QuoteEndQuoteEEndHalf the field isn't all the field, and when you say "unless he is about to die" you offer no explanation as to what you do in that situation. The obvious answer is Castle.quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotecand in Endurance build, it was up there with Nera tanking, so...... nope, still no need for Fool.QuoteEndQuoteEEndExcept that the Fool helps them tank due to his aura? And furthermore, an Endurance Gelyan up to the front lines to tank is a job for Castling. I already described that in my post that you ignored, as well.quoteo(post=559:date=Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM) quotecAlso... doesn't Emi already have ridiculous movement? She is like a very inefficient knight in chess... that generates extra energy. So placing her in strategic places never bothered me.... perhaps it is my style.QuoteEndQuoteEEndEmi and the High Priestess have no problems getting combat. As I stated in my post that you ignored, Castling is used to get them of combat after a nigh-suicidal attack, which many of the High Priestess' attacks tend to be.So,quoteo(post=626:date=Oct 27 2009, 07:33 PM:name=Stragas)QUOTE (Stragas @ Oct 27 2009, 07:33 PM) quotecAll of fool's abilities can be compensated or ignoredQuoteEndQuoteEEndis flat-out wrong. The Fool's aura can't be replicated by the High Priestess at because in-battle healing is far more useful. The Fool's Castling grants Endurance Gelyans a way into dangerous situations and Power Gelyans a way out of them, as well as allowing the High Priestess to do repeated nigh-suicidal attacks on enemies due to her swift healing and ability to Castle into the back lines when wounded. The Fool's Thunder Rod is a great way to do unpunishable damage to units who are engaged in melee combat with one of your own; Meteor Strike will hurt your own allies. The Fool's Rod Twirl and great physical resistances combo amazingly with his Essence of Slyness and Death's Endurance, Power, and Vampirism perk to turn a Soul Bonded Fool into an incredible meatshield. The Fool's awesomeness is not something for which you can "compensate". There are of course multiple playstyles in Genesis (it'd be no fun otherwise), but The Fool's playstyle offers high mobility survivability all at once, and it's not exactly lacking in the damage department eit
blah701
Perhaps it is my strategy? I never sent anyone out into suicide missions..... ok maybe with one instance with Saber. So I never saw the need for Castling. Oh and the need for Gelyan to move when he is about to die... I used the Castling move IF I had a Fool out whenever Gelyan was in range to be attacked with melee attackers I did move him, since Castling was easier than to waste a turn. So Gelyan basically held the fort and stayed in his spawning places when I knew he will live. I honestly didn't like to move him in Sniper build because he wastes an entire turn moving.But honestly? I don't see the need for Fool's Castling ability. As I said before, I like to fort in. Its my strategy, despite its drawbacks. So having an extra dude that doesn't do much in the box I created was a waste for me.And Death? Really? I never noticed that much difference in agility change. I had a balanced build until I got divine breath, then changed it into moon waltz for Nera, and Death's soul bond never really changed her frequency of attacks. I'll tell you the states when I can get onto Armor Games again.... currently doing a project so I really cannot access it... Plus, Nera was doing so much damage that I really didn't care.... I had same opinion for Gelyan. Ok, his attacks were less frequent. But he did so much damage when he was in bond that I really didn't care... but then again, I didn't use Fool at all when I had Gelyan in Endurance build.To be honest? I thought Lightning Rod was a waste. 12 energy wasted when I can use it on Gelyan... plus Meteor strike did better job of splashing. But then again... I never used Lightning Rod on normal enemies. It is probably my mistake... I thought Lightning rod will be as epic as Zeus's Lightning. And High Priestess? I never used her much for fighting. Compared to Nera, Sisi, and Gelyan she did too little damage, and her Hp was too low to send her on suicide missions when she could be healing. She mostly healed units that I couldn't heal otherwise, like Sisi, who just couldn't do much physical which made soul bond useless. I think I occasionally healed Nera so that she can buff power so I could get 40 power with waltz... and Gelyan was good with a few power buffs too. In other words, never used Emi or HP for offense. (I don't think sending Emi out into suicide mission will do anything but her my battery bursted.... she is way too inefficient for the game in my opinion)Anyhow.... excuses, excuses. The fact of the matter is that I never gave Fool a second glance when he died on me. Perhaps because the strategy guide praised him so much, I thought he will be god-like tarrot. When my belief was crushed (I summoned him in one mission, then he died before he could even make a move... same happened when I got Sisi out of the way of a minor critter when she was in critical situation), I never gave a second thought that perhaps my strategy was wrong. But believe me, I like to fort in... and when I do that, the less people inside, the better.... and I cannot create a good defensive grid with Fool inside
EternalLurker
And yes, as I admitted above, I have generally made the same decision with regard to the Hanged Man as you have with the Fool: the Fool is so many times more useful to me than the Hanged Man is that I've never bothered to learn how to unleash his true power. But I admit that he's certainly got uses, just not for me. ^_^(I find it amusing that almost all of the threads in this forum tend to be rather stream-of-consciousness in their inability to stick to the original topic. Not that I'm not the primary contributor to this trend
[deleted]
The arena quest sounded like a great idea. We can battle arena-exclusive warriors and monsters, in a mix of single-based or team-based battles, for some temporary stat boosting items as a reward. Maybe even throw in an overarching story arc spanning across the quest to enhance the experience. To prevent people from stacking up on stat boosters, we can have a a maximum number of two for each item in the inventory. Once we complete every arena match, we can increase replayability by adding challenges, for example, replaying it in the least number of turns or without Soulbursts. For the less inclined, once you become Champion, you could enter daily arena battles against wild creatures of your choice or a rematch against your former opponents. To prevent grinding, it would have to be limited to a few times per day. Thoughts?
EternalLurker
QUOTE (CasualityCasualty @ Oct 27 2009, 11:49 PM) quotecThen allow my first contribution to the forum to be the one that will divert us back to the original topic.QuoteEndQuoteEEndThis implies you're going to make future contributions. Why not make an account, then?quoteo(post=635:date=Oct 27 2009, 11:49 PM:name=CasualityCasualty)QUOTE (CasualityCasualty @ Oct 27 2009, 11:49 PM) quotecTo prevent grinding, it would have to be limited to a few times per day. Thoughts?QuoteEndQuoteEEndHow does that prevent grinding? That just increases the amount of time people take to grind. If anything that basically means they'll be grinding for lon
casualitycasualty
QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Oct 28 2009, 01:38 PM) quotecThis implies you're going to make future contributions. Why not make an account, then?QuoteEndQuoteEEndTa-da.quoteo(post=638:date=Oct 28 2009, 01:38 PM:name=EternalLurker)QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Oct 28 2009, 01:38 PM) quotecHow does that prevent grinding? That just increases the amount of time people take to grind. If anything that basically means they'll be grinding for longer.QuoteEndQuoteEEndAh, but if we implement the limited item slots, then their grinding won't bear them fruit after the maximum has been reac
EternalLurker
The difference between grinding and an easy mode, or a cheat, is that it's not an option that has to be actively turned on. Grinding is always available to anyone. The problem here is that it ends up being in the back of the developer's mind at all times. No matter how much (s)he may try to gear the game towards those who don't grind at all, as long as there is an made by the developer to enable extra, optional battles with powerful rewards, there will always be some scaling of battle difficulties towards those who have completed these battles. Thus, grinding options often end up skewing the difficulty to levels such that it is simply impossible to complete the game grinding at least a little. See? The issue with grinding isn't the players: it's the attitude it creates in the developer. Easy modes are added after the game is already complete: you make the game, you add an option to give all enemies a static 25% less health and damage or something like that, and you're done. Sidequests and optional battles are potentially a major part of the game, not a half-hearted tacked-on addition at the end, so they're not as easy to ignore when statting up battles.An managed to escape that temptation in part 1 (Cerberus is still a piece of cake without doing the sidequests), but I'd rather the temptation isn't there at all in part 2 if possi
blah701
Regardless, I don't think grinding will even be allowed in the game. The arena, in my vision, would reward players with temporary items that will be consumed before the fight starts, then its effects will be used up by the end of the game. This way, it will give the players that "edge" to go through certain difficult tasks. But then again... nothing is finalized. I just can't wait to see a boss critter than can create more critters!!! Although that will be totally pain in the ass to get rid of....Speaking of..... An, if you are still looking at this forum, how about this ability? It should be player's or critter's field effect which prohibits all opponents from attacking anything besides it. Such ability will require a lot of energy if you want to use it as a player, and if used in critter..... it will make the fight more difficult,
« Previous Page
Next Page »
