eksodus
C is better than WC3(but WC2 was really good, so many action ;p). Anyway beta ended now! Still editors working so map makers wont be bored(someone making ma
blah701
Yah, I agree with EL... there really isn't much good tos players in SCI. I mean... all you can really do is do dragoon micro, reaver drop, then take out arbiters and try to own, and then finally take out a carrier and win the game or loose pathetically. Oh and remember to flash up that high templar psy storm every now and then the shake up the field. Okay, that's it. End of tos strategy.So compared to other races, tos does have a bit of difficulty being unique. So I suppose it that's why there is so little tos players. But I hope that new mechanics of SCII will change all that... yes, I was the lucky beta tester... one of many reasons why I wasn't in the forum for so long. The warp-in ability is really unique and allows tos to build as fast as zerg, so as long as there are steady flow of resources... which I think SCII has faster mineral input... tos can really churn out units as fast as they loose them... and they don't loose them often.But since warpgates are such an investment, I think we will FINALLY see a division of builds in tos, like you see in Terran (bionic and mechanic). Player can either focus on increasing warpgates or shoot for stargate/robotics. Variety in Robotics facility will also help as well. I'm so glad to see tos gettin a chance to be something in SCII.But I'm a bit dissatisfied with Terran. I mean, sure, you can play it even when you just started, but there is no more of those... flairs?... that terrans used to have. Terrans have become more ground-heavy than ever, thanks to thors, banshees, etc. And I realized that a lot of people just churn out Marine, Mauradurs(spell error), Medvacs, and few ghosts here and there. No strategy what so ever. And they win with it, too. But apart from problems in air (which, thanks to Blizzard's wonderful idea of debuffing ALL air units in general, it worked out nicely) and Chinese style fighting, I think the overall problems are solved. I think that Thors do the same job that 5 or 7 Goliaths have done in the past, and Hellion worked nicely, although it still kinda looks like Warthog from Halo.Zerg is a bit... overpowered. Well, scratch that. They are just easier to play now. No need to increase hatcheries thanks to mutate larva, and no hydralisks ACTUALLY use their FREAKING CLAWS. I thought that was the BEST improvement that SCII has... REALISM!! But no more scourges saddens me... exploding was a trait of zerg, and now to see that only banelings can explode is a shame... although now there is actually a mid-tier usefulness for zerglings, so I'm happy. I also hate the mutalisk doesn't do ANYTHING. Why bother create a fighter that you don't need? I wish that they would at least mutate into something... Ultrarisks are AWESOME... blizzard finally made that meat useful. Only bad thing that happened to zerg is that they no longer have "eyes" everywhere, since overlords can no longer detect. I also wish that Lurkers will be back. Lurkers used to be a zerg seige unit until it was scrapped altogether. Zerg always had burrowing as their trait, and I love that now there is two units that can move while burrowed. However, I wish that burrowed/ attack unit called Lurker would be back... I kind of miss that mutated hydralis
chamomileess
As for SC2, Protoss have options. If you open standard, and go 2 gate, then you have at least three different paths that you can take:4 gate Timing push2 gate Robo2 gate Stargateand on, and on, and on...I personally love the warpgates for all the Cheesy things that they can do. Warp Prisms + 6 gate = Total worker line carnage. Or you could proxy pylon them for the same effect. One of my main qualms with SC2 is that there is a lot more dependence on robotics facilities now, because if you transition to mid game against a terran or a zerg, you'll most certainly need Colossus or Immortals, whereas in SC1, you could get away with nothing but gates because Dragoons are Imba.Now for Terran, M&M&M is a perfectly legit build. It works because it's balanced, and there's really no good Hard-Counters against it. However, some interesting stratagies can compete:Burrowed BanelingInfestor SupportColossus-Heavy armiesI focus more on zerg because I'm a zerg player. On of the most Imba things I have ever seen a Terran do is this: On Scrap Station, they load up their SCVs into the CC and float to the island expansion to the North. Then they tech to banshees and rape me with 5 of them. As cheesy as it will EVER get.As for Zerg, I like the changes they've made, and not because they've made zerg easier. Do you realize how annoying it is to spend your queen's precious energy just so that you can spread the creep? Hell, I wish I had creep colonies again. And Overlords are no help in this respect, since they can get shot down so easily, and they can't spread creep until Lair-tech.I like how the Corruptor replaced both the Devouerer and the Scourge as the sole AtA fighter for the zerg. It makes air battles less micro-intensive. I do that enough on the ground and with my Mutas, so I don't want to have to deal with MORE micro taking up my crappy 80 APM.Speaking of Mutas, they are not useless O-o. If anything, they're stronger in SC2 than in SC1. Actually, no. That's not true. Muta Micro has been nerfed. Permanently. HOWEVER! Blizzard has heard our cries and has given Mutas a semi-moving shot. They don't stop to shoot, but they decelerate, so it's better than nothing.BTW, SIX DAY
blah701
Wait... you don't have to switch to Robotics for mid tos. You can always out-spam Sentinel's shield ability. That kills most destructive blows, allowing your zelots to safely land. I personally really like Sentinels... finally tos has inexpensive magician!!! Of course, it cannot compare to psy storm... it has awesome graphics as well... too bad that it sometimes laggs the game during late tier massive fights... it kinda costed my victory because of my friend's crappy ass computer...Stalker+zelots+sentinels works really well against mid-tier units, so I never had that trouble. I like the casting improvements in SCII. It isn't as much click intensive as SCI, so I actually take time to produce casting units, instead of summoning archons right off the bat. Workline devastation through warpgate is awesome!!! You don't even need warpgate... Colossus and Stalkers also do the same job... but early dt / warpgate rush kills... too bad none really survive the fight, so you better hope that there are A LOT of workers without much defense...That bionic build is hard to fight against. Even if there is Colossus heavy army, Colossus tends to get click-shot down easily. I usually have to switch to carriers because of how much replacing Colossus costs. But because nobody cares about templars whenever I play (I used to never use high temps, and I usually play with my SCI buddies in SCII... well, used to.) so I get to storm the lot... but I heard that EMP was frequent for this build with ghosts. Even more annoying that Sci vessels, where they can be easily shot down. Never tried infestor support. Does it include spamming infested terrans to up your army or to neural parasite the medvacs? I never really encountered a decent bio terran during my zerg matchup... they liked to stomp me with thors instead.Lol... I did that once. Annoyed my friend to hell. And then to top it all, I PT rushed him as soon as I reached 7 banshee-enough resources. Too bad he didn't spec for banelings, lol...But that is a problem that Blizzard needs to fix. I guess that is why that this map is the only map that has an island expansion. Everywhere else the expansion is at least accessible via destruction of doodads. But yes, creep tumors are annoying in the early game, and makes buildings kind of crunch up together. I have hard time teching up because of that... but I still manage... only bad news is that spine crawlers and spore crawlers have no room to "sit". Often times I get jokes about how my spine crawlers just ly around where workers are... since they don't distract the workers because they are considered a unit when they are un-borrowed. Yah... I still don't see the merit of mutalisks. They are really not needed, especially when the game turns to the worst. Corruptors you can at least change to Brood Lords (my current fav unit), but mutalisks are kind of stuck where they are. I suppose you do need versatile fighter for zerg, but the point is that no other race has one, so the uses for mutalisks are limited. I mean... vikings and phoenixes are only anti-air... with ground mode change and gravity flux respectively. But the point is that there is no real reason to click for mutalisks apart from the desire to micro... and yah, you do that enough with ground forces already, especially now that zerg doesn't have defilers with dark swarm ability. Mutalisks do have moving shots, but I still think that Phoenixes are the best anti-air unit. Enough can KILL any type of air units. Now, tos truly has air-superiority unit... I personally like it, because carriers are STILL the weakest capital ship in terms of defense. I hate the fact that BC doesn't have different upgrades like they did before (remember that they used to have rocket barage, yamoto, and defense matrix abilities? Those were the day
chamomileess
But anyways, as a zerg player who unconsciously uses cheese, I have a couple builds that are all nearly unstoppable early and mid-game if I do them properly. If not, then I am screwed.For example:14 pool/Baneling bust-This is about as cheesy as it gets, which involves containing your opponent with your lings after a 14 pool. If its a Terran or a Toss, they'll wall up, like good little cautious players. This gives you the chance to throw up a baneling's nest. As soon as it's done, morph between 5 and 8 banelings. Bust in through a Supply Depot or Pylon, melt away any remaining units, and wreak zergling destruction. If you fail your bust, then you're pretyt much boned. All you have left is to spam ling/baneling and hope it wins you the game. Or you could transition into +1,2 or even +2/2 lings, who rip virtually EVERYTHING to shreds. But thats only if you survive.Muta Rush-One of my favourites, which involves spamming spine crawlers with you minerals as soon as you 14 pool. You don't build lings, and all you do is turtle up. With your first 150 gas, get that lair, all the while building static defenses. As soon as you can get a spire up, pump mutas and harass. Getting +1 Carapace is not a bad idea vs Terran. Against toss, well, you'll need some pretty sick micro. Usually works to the point where you can even try for a creep tumor/ spine crawler push.My #1 favourite, and actually not a cheese:Burrowed Roach/InfestorSimply open standard, and then either pump Roaches, Infestors, or both. Get burrow (and tunneling claws for roach) and then do some covert ops harass. If you went infestor, then you have a very scary army at hand. Each infestor at full energy can spawn 8 infested Terrans while underground. If you have even just 4 infestors, then spawning 32 "marines" in the enemy's worker line will not only cripple them economically, but also in terms of morale. I've gotten myself into diamond league and won with this strategy, mostly because no one knows how to really counter i
eksodus
/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />). I noticed that in SC1 Carrier was most armored unit in game(basic 3), but now it got 2 or 1(dont really using them but noticed one time) but most weird thing for Protoss is that Carrier with all upgrades vs Mothership with all upgrades... Just... Carrier wins by 10 hp... Then Mothership got nearly 2 time more hp and losing?(ok... it was in first wave of beta but stats of this units wasnt changed isnt it?). Coming back to Zerg... Do you know any good starting 1v1 strategy? I always losing as Zerg... Always winning as Protoss... and random things doing as Terran(yes... i playing all, it depends who i want play now, I missing very... Dark Archons, Lurkers, easier way to Dark Templar, Medics, Goliaths...). And anyone noticed that voice of Zerg changed in wave 2...? Also some voices are too silent or was better in SC1, for this second I think that Zealot and Zergling had better voices in SC1 and both good are old and new Hydralisk and Ghost(really i got this more...). Its weird that in 1v1 most succesful tactic as Protoss is fast Zealots(2 gateways, and massing Zealots, normaly you get first 4 when enemy got poor defences, if still surviving long you can slowly making Stalkers and teching, so its great but isnt original tactic). And all will be happy with information that SC2 will be in 5 d
blah701
Lol... I had a fight with hydra+Corruptor combo as well. Fun time... too bad that I had Phoenix+Sentinels+Zelot combo. I aimed my Sentinels all at one Corruptor at a time while Hydras were wiped out by my zelots. Fun times, fun times...Roach+Infestor rushes are so hard to fend off, especially for Protoss. At least when you are Terran, you can seige tank inside the base, and somtimes PF are there to help as well. That rush will work wonders against MMM (Marine, Maruadors, Medvas), because the numbers are matched in a second. Brood Lord will also work, now that I think about it... but it must be hell to create that many BL to oppose it... I suppose if you storm your own base? I only got Infestor rushed once... and I couldn't fend that because he timed roach rush was timed so well after my main forces went to solve the problem. I got mauled... I think that would be right word to use in the situation. The fact that I didn't have any HT out at that time also contributed as well, and he conveniently researched Nero parasite... needless to say that he neroed my Collosi. Well, Muta rush is hard to fend without damage, unless you have Phoenix out and fighting. The other option is to have Sentinel and Stalker combo, but I usually do zelot and Sentinel, because Sentinel cost so much gas. So in the end, I HAVE to warp in a Stargate or two instead of expanding warpgates. Frustrating, zergs ar
eksodus
/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />. Of course that when you got only hydras and Corruptors you cant win with Phoenixes, Zealots and Sentinels... Other thing will be when you replace Zealots with Stalkers, h
blah701
Mutalisks... I find them quite useless, but like Scourages, apparently they have their uses. Courruptors cannot harrass like mutalisks... so I think blizzard did this on purpose to make sure that zerg doesn't tier uber fast. But muta gathering time has been reduced because of mutate larva. So it evens out I suppose.Yah... I cannot replace zealots with stalkers. Not that I hate stalkers, but when you start using sentinels, you don't have enough gas to do much else. So my early build usually ends up being either stalker zealot or zealot, stalker, and phoenix... well, there isn't much phoenixes in the beginning, but it kind of stocks up as I do an extra multi with four less zealots on production. Sentinels saving zealots helps with that, so I love sentinels,
chamomileess
My theory behind upping armour instead of weapons is this:If you're harassing a Terran, then the only anti-air they'll have by then if you go fast muta are marines. As great as they are, they deal only 6 damage. So, if you can reduce that and increase the survivability of your mutas, then you can harass longer. Since the most health a worker will have is 45, all you really need are 5 mutas and you can 1 hit workers. This means that if you have more (most players harass with 7-9), then you can always wreak some pretty serious havoc (9 mutas x 3 damage from first bounce = 27 damage. Congrats, you've just killed one probe and permanently damaged another.) Granted, this is only versus Terran, who rely on Marines and Thors for anti-air. And since Thors air attack is 6x4 hits, then if you have 3 armour on a muta, that damage will be halved to 3x4 hits. Halved. This thinking works for Zerg too, who will only have Queens for anti-air in early game harass.Against protoss, you're better off getting weapons. (Stalkers... 10 damage? 12 hits= death to muta. 9 damage? 14 hits= death. Still not too bad, but Toss can mass a pretty huge stalker ball, and plus... BLINK IMBA D: )When I play Toss, my armies are ALWAYS gas-heavy. I go with Stalker/Sentinel + Halluci-lots+ Real-lots. The Zealots, both Hallucinated and real will always take the damage while my 17+ stalker and 8+ sentinel army takes potshots at will. Win every time, and doubles your army size at no cost. (Granted, the hallucinations deal no damage, but zealots are tanks anyways... 60/100? GET OUT
blah701
That's an expensive combo. I usually don't use hallucination, because it is so costly mana-wise. I use blocking (forget what it is called) to prevent surrounds and kill with zealots, and since early Phoenix helps with muta harass, I like it better than stalkers for some reason. I really don't like to research blink and charge at the same time, because of resource usage. I use that to take out Colossus, since they are better combo with zelots. Yah... don't like Dark Templar teches... I kinda noticed that was the case for me.Only time I take out Stalkers is usually against... oh okay, I take stalkers when I fight zerg, because even with shield, zealots die like crazy against roach/hydra build. They are crazy powerful, because roaches have such survivability it isn't even funny. And when roaches have burrow-moving... well, you take out the hydras, then here comes roaches from your flank, killing your sentinels. So I prefer to use stalkers with much better mobility. So, yes, I'm one of those weirdos that use Stalker balls. Usu. my next logical thing is Colossus, but ever since Infestor neuro para has became common, I don't take out expensive units against zergs. Mass Stalkers and Sentinels usually wins the battle, because no one bothers to take out banelings for some reason... heck, I usually don't even see zerglings. Although I did have a need to take out Colossus because zerg player used zerglings. Most of times, Phoenix harass after you beat down muta rush is much more effective, but things never quite go your way when you have zergs with nearly infinite larva.One of my absolute fav. is to kill queens for zerg. Delays their build for so long it isn't even funny. Sometimes that is more effective than killing overlords, so I do both All the time. Forget spores, since they never truly have enough to kill too many of Phoenix. I usually do that when other person's muta rush failed. Fun times
plaguexroamer
blah701
ave no idea what the heck if friend beta key, but if you wanted, you could've spazzed on my e-mail. Had mine since...
an
Cham, if you are fighting a heavy roach army, you should get Immortals instead of Colosusses. Plague, the game is coming out next week. Don't be so pissed /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif
blah701
/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> At any rate, roaches are kinda hard to kill, like its name suggests. I usually found that while Immortals do significant damage, it is hard to take out immortals for the sake of countering roaches.... kinda too big of a resource difference. Personal preference is stalker supported sentinels, but often times sentinel ball isn't enough to cut it... as a tos, you just have to prevent mass roach army from taking place first with phoenix. I wish that at least roaches would have light armor, and not medium armor. Then hellion would be able to at least be somewhat of an effective counter.I think I'll definitely try Immortal army (very catch name) with my Sentinels next time I fight my roach happy friend. But then again, my nickname as a zerg among my friend as bug king (i tend to use roaches in the early game and brood lords on the late game for zerg.... needless to say, my friends hate me on 2v2 or higher matches), so I have no excuse,
chamomileess
I would have sent it too, had you guys just asked a few days earlie
plaguexroamer
The problem, An, is that our mother refuses to purchase any new games for us until November/December. At the very least, if we were given a beta key, we would have explained (in various plausible manners) that we were supposed to 'test' the game, and she would have no choice but to let us do so. We've done it before, and it works. Of course, since we didn't get one this time around...
chamomileess
As I said, I would have sent it, had my brother not beat me to the punch...What can I say? He's actually a bigger fan than I am, and even more so than some of his friends from Korea. Like, he's decided that he wants to make SCII his .So, like I said, if you guys had asked a few days earlier... ._.''
plaguexroamer
WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THE FRIEND BETA KEY EXISTED UNTIL THAT DAY WE ASKED YOU.
« Previous Page
Next Page »