damijin
Instead, he might use a consumable scroll called "Stun Rune" (which may possibly require the player to be a gunslinger to use it, or not) and it would give his next attack a % chance to stun the target.Big question: Why do this? Skill systems work fine!The answer, an item-based system allows us a more compatible combat structure for this game.Any game that has skills which consume mana, and has mana that regenerate over time, is a game where the most efficient way to play is to constantly use your skills at a rate where you never run out of mana, but also never have full mana. Constantly using enough to not be wasting mana by having it at 100% where it can no longer regenerate any further.The problem with this is that such a game cannot be idled in without a bot, and to a large degree, this design structure is why bots exist. They exist because it's so inefficient to play the game without using skills, that complex bots must be made in order to ensure the character can kill at a reasonable speed on monsters that give good XP. If these games had no skill system, and had only auto attack, the bots would be far simpler, just targeting, attacking, looting, targeting, etc.So, what about people constantly using items in our game? What if they use items so frequently that it's just like playing actively with a mana bar, except to replenish their mana bar, they have to go alllllll the way back to town to buy more items instead of just being able to sit down for a bit.The difference in our system is that items cost money, and the money you have can be spent in various ways. For instance, you may have to choose between buying consumable items to beat an individual enemy that is very hard, but you could save that money and use it on new equipment that helps you against everything (but not as much as the consumables in an individual fight).Why is that good? Well. Two reasons. The most obvious is that having players spend more money on more things increases the value of currency and helps it sell better.The other is playing while idle, will allow users to farm currency efficiently. We know that players will ALWAYS do whatever is most efficient method for achieving their goals -- even if the most efficient thing is really stupid and not working as intended. They will do that stupid broken thing, and blame the game for having it (and making it the most efficient way to play) instead of playing in a different way that is more fun for them.In other words, if we have skills instead of items -- no one will play while chatting in chat or reading forums or doing work in their office. They will only play when they can devote enough attention to playing and using skills as they do it. In fact, they may end up developing or using bots in order to play while AFK so that they can do other things while still advancing in the game. The desire to advance in a game while also being able to do something less mind numbing is clearly appealing as proved by how popular bots and powerleveling are in MMOs. Instead, with our item system, players have two efficient ways to play.Efficient for making money: Grind on field monsters without using many items in order to spend the least amount possible while killing monsters.Efficient for leveling and getting rare loot: Use items in order to kill things faster (exp faster), or hunt in difficult dungeons that require item usage to beat in order to get rare dungeon loot.This should work well because our game will have plenty of content (and reward) for playing actively -- but if you don't have the time to play actively right now, you can always just farm cash while you're busy doing something else.Well, in our world, if items are skills, and inventory space is mana, then money is mana regeneration -- and the rate that you earn money at is your speed of regeneration.What does this mean? It means that players will have the fastest and most efficient rate of killing when they are constantly using items -- HOWEVER, if they choose to do this, they will not make money as quickly as if they were using items more prudently and attempting to strike a balance between earning money and earning exp.Another thing it allows us to do is to create interesting strategy for beating dungeons. Since your progress in a dungeon resets if you leave, you only get to bring items that you came in with. You have to use these efficiently and know when you need to use them in order to get through the whole dungeon. This lets us add challenge to the game from a strategic perspective for the most difficult content and
an
Instead of items, player will carry a desk of cards (may be 10 max). Each card can be used for x number of time(like 3) before they expires and can't be used again. To use the card, player need to go back to NPC to have them recharged. Each recharged will take money depending on how strong the card is. Player obtains card by buying them from card shops, or from monsters or rare cards from bosses. Once the card is obtained, they can't be lost unless player discard it for new card. This way, it still cost money to use a skil (and may be alot of money for strong skills)l, but player still have the satisfaction of owning a skills and dont have to worry about losing it after certain uses and can't find a way to get it again. Card can be divided into catalogs such as: Race Specific Card, Offensive Card, Defensive Card etc...It have the advantage of items system like Mike mentioned above. More importantly, it is not your generic RPG and player can spend time collecting many kind of cards and build desks depending on the situations. Personally, the biggest flaw with item system is that i will feel very uncomforable using a strong item knowing it will go away for good and it is a pain in the ass trying to get one again. But if I can just farm enough money(even if it is lot of money) to use the skill again, I will feel much better using
damijin
QUOTE (An @ Feb 3 2010, 06:34 PM) quotecOkay. So we discussed this before and came to conclusion that we probly don't need a mana system. I had another system to propose, which is pretty much item based but with a twist: Rechargeable Cards.Instead of items, player will carry a desk of cards (may be 10 max). Each card can be used for x number of time(like 3) before they expires and can't be used again. To use the card, player need to go back to NPC to have them recharged. Each recharged will take money depending on how strong the card is. Player obtains card by buying them from card shops, or from monsters or rare cards from bosses. Once the card is obtained, they can't be lost unless player discard it for new card. This way, it still cost money to use a skil (and may be alot of money for strong skills)l, but player still have the satisfaction of owning a skills and dont have to worry about losing it after certain uses and can't find a way to get it again. Card can be divided into catalogs such as: Race Specific Card, Offensive Card, Defensive Card etc...It have the advantage of items system like Mike mentioned above. More importantly, it is not your generic RPG and player can spend time collecting many kind of cards and build desks depending on the situations. Personally, the biggest flaw with item system is that i will feel very uncomforable using a strong item knowing it will go away for good and it is a pain in the ass trying to get one again. But if I can just farm enough money(even if it is lot of money) to use the skill again, I will feel much better using it.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI want to hear what Dave and Greg think about this before I can decide what makes most sense to us.I think one thing to keep in mind though, An, is that items will all be able to be sold and should be available on the market. So, there is never going to be an item that you simple cannot ever replace without doing some hardcore task. You can always buy another one, its just a matter of how much people are selling them for. Ultimately, this is the same as recharges because with either system you're spending money to use the items (just with recharges you're spending it to an NPC and with consumed items you are spending it most of the time to other players for rare items).I'm also honestly a little worried about cards. I'm worried that they will not appeal to some people and that people wont be sure if this is a card game or an RPG or what. That's my biggest fear with calling them cards and making them look like cards. I might be more comfortable with them being scrolls, runes, gems, or other item types besides cards -- but the recharging thing is fine by me. It's just a decision we'll make between having people spend more money at NPCs to recharge items (making them more permanent) or having them consume them and having a wide market of sales and making the items drop more commonly.There is one big appeal to recharges. Instead of having to go to the auction house and buy a bunch of specific items (typing in the specific names to search for each) and then maybe making a stop at the potion store to buy a few more items each time you want to go attempt a challenging task. Instead, with recharges all we need is a recharger NPC that you talk to and press one button to recharge all the items in your inventory at once. You could also choose to do them individually, but having that "recharge all my items" button would make becoming prepared for challenging tasks less obnoxious. I really like t
arkatufus
Lets have gems that can be "trained" and inserted into a slot on an item. The more you use it, the more "experience" the gem has, the more powerful it is.Slots are, obviously, limited. It can be crafted into items (crafting skill / craft NPC for money) with a fail chance, with higher level items having(?) more slots than the lower level ones.Gems can also be merged to create new gems, with its merge success chance based on how many "experience" each gem has.And we'll use FF system where you can remove gems from slots, so that the gems becomes a valuable trading commod
damijin
There's a lot of really great stuff here. First of all, having fail chances is always good for the economy because it creates rarity. Secondly, having the ability to merge gems is really interesting because it may mean that new variations on skills become available only as players start to gain access to some rare gems to combine with. This is definitely a strong system for having a strong economy, and that's one of the most important things to
damijin
I'm going to propose a gemstone slotting concept that is similar to the idea that Dave and I had a while back where the skills the character has is tied to the equipment they are wearing. However, in the new version, instead of having a gun with a skill attached to it -- you will attach a gemstone to a gun, and the skill that the gemstone gives you will be based both on the type of gemstone it is and the type of equipment you are placing it on.Items that can be slotted:Weapons - Typically gives an offensive class-specific type skill. Later weapons have more and more slots with the maximum number of slots being 3 for 1-handed weapons and 6 for 2-handers.Shields - Typically gives a defensive type skill used by tank classes. Lower level shields have 1 slot, while higher level shields can have up to 3.Shoulder Guards - Universal equipment. All shoulder guards in the game can be worn by any class or race, and can have up to 2 gemstone slots. Skills from shoulder guards are universal skills that every class can use.The maximum number of skills any player can have at the same time is 8. Up to 6 in their hands, and up to 2 in their shoulder.At release, because the level cap will be 25, the maximum number of skills available to a level 25 player will be only 5. Two per weapon/shield (or 4 for 2-hander), and 1 slot shoulder pieces. The additional 3 slots will be unveiled as the cap is raised. At level 30, players will be able to equip the first 5-slotted 2 handers. At level 35, players will gain access to 3 slotted 1-handers and 6 slotted 2-handers. At 40, the final slot will be available from 2-slotted shoulder guards. The intended cap is going to be 50 for a long period of time, and it's unlikely that we will add more slots beyond the 8th -- though it is possible that we will extend all the way up to 10 eventually.In order to prevent level 1 characters from slotting super powerful skills designed for high level characters, gems and equipment will both have minimum level requirements.Players may not equip items that have a higher level requirement than their current level. However, they may equip or slot gemstones that are higher requirement than their current level, though the skills that the gemstone gives will be disabled until they reach that level (and cannot be leveled up as a result).Slotting procedure:Players will acquire gems while hunting or by purchasing them from other players. Each type of gem has 2 versions, the regular gemstone and a "Perfect" gemstone. The purpose of these rarer perfect stones will be explained shortly.Players who have acquired a gem are able to attempt to slot it into their equipment at the Gemsmith. Each gem has its own unique chance to succeed slotting, where weaker skills are more likely to be successfully slotted and more powerful skills are less likely. However, perfect gems will have a bonus +10% slotting chance on top of the default success rate, and will give additional spirit defense when used in jewelry.Each gemstone will have a list of skills that it will give when used in various types of equipment. For instance:Starburst Ruby -Maximum power level: 3Leveling speed: Fast (requires less usage than average to level up)Rarity: UncommonOn Rifles (Human Engineer):Dragon's Breath - Fires a bullet surrounded by the spirit of an ancient dragon, striking the opponent for considerable damage.Number of Charges - 3 to 5 (starts at 3, gains +1 per power level of the ruby).Damage Power - 250Cost to Recharge - 500 gold per charge.On Pistols (Human Gunslinger): Celerity - Grants the user a brief burst of mystical super speed, allowing him to attack in the next turn, regardless of his recovery time.Number of Charges - 1Success Rate - 50 to 80% (+10% per level)Cost to Recharge - 2500 goldOn Daggers (Imp Assassin):Fire Shield - Surrounds the user with a magical shield that decreases damage taken from fire attacks for 5 attack rounds.Number of Charges - 10Power - Decreases damage from fire by 20 to 30% (+5% per level)Cost to Recharge - 100 gold per charge.On Tridents/Scythes (Imp Reaver):Fire Wave - Blasts a wave of fire from the weapon that has a chance to burn the opponent for several rounds.Power: 100 + 10-20 per round if burning lands.Chance to Land Burning: 75%Number of Rounds to Burn: 3-5 (+1 per level of gemstone)Leaving the rest of these blank just for the sake of saving time writing this, but you get the point.On Staffs (Elven Enchanter or Elementalist):On Polearms/Halberds (Elven Enchanter or Troll Warrior)On Swords (Troll Paladin or Warrior)On Blunts (Troll Paladin or Warrior)On Shields (Troll Paladin or Human Gunslinger)On Shoulder Guards (All Races/Classes)Self Recovery - Recovers some HP immediately, and additional HP for the next 3 rounds.Initial Heal - 100 to 150 HP (+25 per level)Heal Over Time - 10 to 20 HP per round (+5 hp per level)Leveling Up Your Gemstones: Gemstones are leveled by gaining experience points. Each type of gemstone has a unique maximum level and different amounts of XP needed to reach that level. Gemstones are leveled by using them during combat. When you use a gemstone during a combat, it will gain 5% of the total xp you earn from the battle for the first use, plus 1% for each additional usage during that same combat. The XP it gets will not take away from the XP that you gain, but will be based on it. So, if the monster gives you 1000 XP, and you used the same skill twice in the combat, you will get 6% of 1000 XP added to your gem's level, but it wont subtract that number from the 1000 XP your character gains.Why such diminishing returns on the XP, giving 5% for one use, but only 1% for the additional uses in a single combat? Well if we decided to give 5% for each usage, the ideal grinding situation would be to put your gem onto whatever piece of equipment is the cheapest to recharge and spam during combat, then transfer it to the item that you really want the gemstone in when it is max level. And if we only give 5% XP for using the item, but give no bonus XP per additional use, then the most effective way to level would be to use each skill only 1 time per combat. By giving a big chunk for the first use plus a small amount for additional uses, you will level the skill fastest by spamming it, but that will cost more than using it only once per combat. So it gives players the option to either level it cheaply or level it more quickly at a significant increased cost.Removing and Selling Gemstones: When gemstones are dropped from monsters, they will be "sealed". Sealed gemstones are level 1 with no experience contributed to them. Gemstones can only be sold if they are sealed, meaning you cannot level up a gemstone and then sell it to someone. They must level their gemstones on their own. If you wish to sell a gemstone that you have used (and leveled up), you must re-seal it at the Gemsmith which will reset its level, and allow you to sell it to other players. Players may level up a gemstone in one piece of equipment then have it removed and re-slot it to another item without re-sealing it however -- however the removal and re-slotting will carry a fee for the user, and it is possible that the gem will fail to be slotted and be destroyed (or re-sealed if we think destroying it is too harsh).In order to efficiently create these lists of skills, we will create list of skills for each class, and then assign those skills to gems. So, lets say we want 10 skills per weapon type at launch. We'll come up with those, and then have 10 different gem types and give 1 skill to each for each weapon.Items that can be crafted with gemstones:Jewelry uses the same gemstones that players slot for skills in the crafting process for making the jewelry. Additional gemstones cannot be added to the jewelry after it is created, and gemstones cannot be removed from the gemstone unless the jewelry is destroyed. Unlike items that are slotted with gemstones, jewelry does not provide the wearer with active skills but rather with passive buffs and stat modifiers. All jewelry can be worn by any r
an
hat do higher level gems do? stronger version of the skill? This sound good to me btw. It should be possible to have supportive gem, which will strenghten other gems in some
damijin
The skills will not be weapon or class specific, but rather every skill can be used by every type of character. However, almost all the skills will derive their power or land rate based on statistics. So a tank skill might give you the ability to absorb some % of damage given to you. If you have high vitality (like a tank should), you may absorb up to 50% of the damage being dealt for the next 3 rounds. If your vitality is low, you may only be able to absorb 10% of the damage given and it may only last for 1 or 2 rounds.Likewise, if you're using a magic attack, its power and chance to land will be dramatically lower if you have low spirit stat than if you have high spirit.This system would require the players to memorize much less information, and would remove the need to slot the gems or runes into specific items which is a bit of a complex system (especially as we add more weapon and gem types down the road, it could potentially eventually mean that we've got hundreds of skills that people need to understand. Because it's not just important to know your own skills, but you also want to know what sort of skills you can expect a PvP enemy to use. If we have so many skills with every class having unique ones, it would be virtually impossible to know how each class works. With a single skill collection that everyone can use, but some more effective than others, it is much more possible for players to understand what their character can do as well as what other characters can do. In addition to these runes or gems, we would also still have some traditional consumable items that can't be recharged, for instance maybe a throwing weapon (stack of throwing axes, throwing daggers, shurikens), and healing poti
an
QUOTE (damijin @ Feb 5 2010, 02:18 AM) quotecTalked to Dave a bit regarding implementation and I don't think we'll go with something quite like the system described above. I think one primary difference is that instead of having gems give different skills based on the item they're on, they won't be embedded in an item, but maybe stored on a belt or just in the inventory somehow.The skills will not be weapon or class specific, but rather every skill can be used by every type of character. However, almost all the skills will derive their power or land rate based on statistics. So a tank skill might give you the ability to absorb some % of damage given to you. If you have high vitality (like a tank should), you may absorb up to 50% of the damage being dealt for the next 3 rounds. If your vitality is low, you may only be able to absorb 10% of the damage given and it may only last for 1 or 2 rounds.Likewise, if you're using a magic attack, its power and chance to land will be dramatically lower if you have low spirit stat than if you have high spirit.This system would require the players to memorize much less information, and would remove the need to slot the gems or runes into specific items which is a bit of a complex system (especially as we add more weapon and gem types down the road, it could potentially eventually mean that we've got hundreds of skills that people need to understand. Because it's not just important to know your own skills, but you also want to know what sort of skills you can expect a PvP enemy to use. If we have so many skills with every class having unique ones, it would be virtually impossible to know how each class works. With a single skill collection that everyone can use, but some more effective than others, it is much more possible for players to understand what their character can do as well as what other characters can do. In addition to these runes or gems, we would also still have some traditional consumable items that can't be recharged, for instance maybe a throwing weapon (stack of throwing axes, throwing daggers, shurikens), and healing potions.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI strongly oppose this second proposal. Down to the basic, it is the rechargeable item as suggested (just gem instead of card, inventory/belt instead of desk). However, the difference is now all skills are usable by all classes, which i think is a terrible idea for the following reason:+It reduce race identity and player identity.+It forces me to make unique animation for each unit( x10 animation 1 skill) or suffer generic animation for all skills.+It disable the ability to add unique animations and cool special racial ability.+To say that "" is simply not a good argument to make all skill available to all class. Each class should be different. Player will learn what each class can do as the game progress. Many many mmo game have an array of unique skill for each class and it is not a deterrent. If you make all skill available to all class, you are ironically making it impossible to know that character will do, because now a assassin can heal if he want
an
We divide gems into 2 type: Weapon Gem and Armor Gem.Weapon gems only go on weapon, they are special racial skills, since only certain race can wear certain weapon.Armor gems only go on armors (shoulder guard, armor). They are universal skills that all races can have access to, or they buff stats, or have some special effect. This way we wont have a crap load of skills; still keep the chargeable item idea; racial skills are still availa
damijin
QUOTE (An @ Feb 5 2010, 05:22 AM) quotecHow about we go back to the first proposal and refine it. We divide gems into 2 type: Weapon Gem and Armor Gem.Weapon gems only go on weapon, they are special racial skills, since only certain race can wear certain weapon.Armor gems only go on armors (shoulder guard, armor). They are universal skills that all races can have access to, or they buff stats, or have some special effect. This way we wont have a crap load of skills; still keep the chargeable item idea; racial skills are still available.QuoteEndQuoteEEndYou guys know that my goal is really to make sure everyone feels really good about the designs, that the people who have to do the physical work of making them real feel like it's what they want the game to have. I'm going to let you and Dave both make a last sort of proposal/compromise and see if we can come up with something. Failing a mutual agreement at that point I'll just have to make some executive decision for the sake of moving forward and getting things done without getting entrenched in specific system design for weeks.As I see it, here are the opposing philosophies:An - Strongly dislikes the idea of losing powerful consumables. It makes the items seem too important to possibly "waste" them on a battle when they are so expensive and rare in some cases. For this reason, An feels that the strong skill type items should be rechargeable items. This still allows them to cost money to use, but makes them more permanent like a piece of equipment. Furthermore, skills should be unique to races to save on the vast quantity of art resources required to allow all skills useable by all races.Dave - Favors consumables. He's willing to have rechargeable items to some degree, but favors consumables primarily. This is for several reasons, one being that a simple consumable system is much less complex to implement and to understand by the players. Would prefer to have everything used by everyone (though with stats determining effectiveness so that "tank" items are near useless on a mage for instance). Pretty strongly against slotting, but willing to compromise on non-slotted rechargeables in the inventory.Me - I really do like both. Pure consumables were my original intention -- but the real appeal to recharging items is that it makes it SO much easier to go to town, charge your items, head back out and fight. You dont need to go to the potion store and buy up a ton of potions, then go to the auction house and search through thousands of listings for various consumables. I side with An on the issue of skills being race specific or open to everyone. The biggest problem in my mind isn't making every animation work with every race at launch -- but lets look 6 months down the road. We have all the animations from launch, plus a bunch more. Now we want to add some new races. However, before we can add them, we have to create animations for *every* skill that already exists in the game. That's going to significantly raise the barrier of introducing new races, which is something we know that we want to do.So, item skills, most of them anyway, will be race specific regardless of us going consumables or rechargeables or a mix of both. It's a good point An raised that I hadnt thought about when I made that last post suggesting the usable by everyone thing.Beyond that, you guys can make a final case of how you think we can provide both the best experience to the users, and not give ourselves more work than we need to. If we can't agree on something, I'll have to come up with a solution, and unfortunately, it won't be seen as perfect by everyone but with a 4 person team we'll need to do that from time to time in an effort to achieve the bigger picture. Just imagine how much harder this would be if it was a real MMO with 50+ people! Coders would be stuck coding systems that they thought were literally retarded, and artists would be forced to create areas and items that they find bland and boring. In comparison to that, even if we occasionally have to implement systems that some of us are not totally in favor of, the game will ultimately reflect each of us a whole ton more than a commercial MMO would -- and I'm trying super hard to make sure everyone really cares about this and believes in everything going into t
damijin
I know we want money to serve as mana to a large degree in our game. One thing we could do is have classic RPG style skills, but instead of spending mana to cast them, you have to use some sort of item that allows you to use your skills. This item could be shared by all classes, or could be unique per class or race. Or there could be two different items -- one for physical skills, one for magical skills.For instance, human engineers might have a skill called Stun Shot.Stun Shot: Consumes 15 Blast PowderOr a Elven Elementalist might have a skill called Wind Vortex.Wind Vortex: Consumes 60 RunestonesWith a system like that we can allow people to learn true skills as they level up instead of just passive traits, but also make casting those skills/spells based on resources instead of mana.Perhaps we can come up with something around that concept? It definitely allows us to make sure each class is different as the skills would be something you learn in the class trees.
an
With that said, please allow me to make my point. quoteoQUOTE quotecThis is for several reasons, one being that a simple consumable system is much less complex to implement and to understand by the playersQuoteEndQuoteEEnd <- I'm not an expert on server coding or such, but I do know some coding and I asked some seasonal coders. All agreed that that a consumable system is not significantly harder to implement, if not almost the same. If you are really worried about player hogging stuffs, introduce a limit such as inventory or stash (you should have a limit too anyway with consumable items). If you worry that some strong and rare item will eventually(after years) become common, introduce a way to destroy them such as upgrading with a chance of failing and destroying the item. To say that is it too complex to understand is also not a good point. If a person doesn't understand rechargeable items, they wont understand consumable items either. It is much easier for user to just recharge his/her stuff than going around looking for the exact items he want, buying from auction house, hunting from monsters. With rechargeable system, they can just go hunt or do anything to make money and go to the same place to recharge. Much less tedious, much less complexity. quoteoQUOTE quotecWould prefer to have everything used by everyoneQuoteEndQuoteEEnd For the reason I already mentioned in earlier post, this is not a good idea.quoteoQUOTE quotecMe - I really do like both. Pure consumables were my original intention -- but the real appeal to recharging items is that it makes it SO much easier to go to town, charge your items, head back out and fight. You dont need to go to the potion store and buy up a ton of potions, then go to the auction house and search through thousands of listings for various consumables. I side with An on the issue of skills being race specific or open to everyone. The biggest problem in my mind isn't making every animation work with every race at launch -- but lets look 6 months down the road. We have all the animations from launch, plus a bunch more. Now we want to add some new races. However, before we can add them, we have to create animations for *every* skill that already exists in the game. That's going to significantly raise the barrier of introducing new races, which is something we know that we want to do.So, item skills, most of them anyway, will be race specific regardless of us going consumables or rechargeables or a mix of both. It's a good point An raised that I hadnt thought about when I made that last post suggesting the usable by everyone thing.QuoteEndQuoteEEnd Mike, reading your post, it is pretty obvious to me that you also clearly prefer rechargeable items and non-all-universal skills to consumable items and universal skill for everyone. You may like both, your words expressed your preference to one over the ot
an
QUOTE (damijin @ Feb 5 2010, 07:48 PM) quotecI also have an alternative system idea that Dave mentioned as a possibility if we want to go back toward a more classic online RPG design.I know we want money to serve as mana to a large degree in our game. One thing we could do is have classic RPG style skills, but instead of spending mana to cast them, you have to use some sort of item that allows you to use your skills. This item could be shared by all classes, or could be unique per class or race. Or there could be two different items -- one for physical skills, one for magical skills.For instance, human engineers might have a skill called Stun Shot.Stun Shot: Consumes 15 Blast PowderOr a Elven Elementalist might have a skill called Wind Vortex.Wind Vortex: Consumes 60 RunestonesWith a system like that we can allow people to learn true skills as they level up instead of just passive traits, but also make casting those skills/spells based on resources instead of mana.Perhaps we can come up with something around that concept? It definitely allows us to make sure each class is different as the skills would be something you learn in the class trees.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI'm not feeling strongly one way or the other about this. It is basically a normal RPG type game but you use currency instead of mana to cast skills. It is ok, i guess. If you want to do this tho, i don't think you should introduct too many types of currencies. And what will be the main currency to be used for trading and buying ge
damijin
I'm most attracted to the reagent idea right now, because it does what it needs to do without being overly complicated. My whole goal of item-based skills was simply to tie skill use into the economy instead of through mana -- because with mana, you are encouraged to ALWAYS use skills to be efficient. With them being based on money, it is efficient both to use skills (level faster) or not use skills (get more money).The reagent skill idea achieves that in a simple way that is not difficult to explain to players. I'm going to go with this system in our design doc (adding it tomorrow), and it will almost definitely be our final choice. One thing I *really* like about it, is that it once again allows us to truly let players learn skills as they level up through their class tree instead of only letting them get passive traits. I think having skills learned as you level up really does make leveling more appealing, and it's the most common and understood system of existing online RPGs, so it's what people will expect. However, we're able to give them what they expect while also keeping our concept of efficient farming without skills. I think that's pretty perfect.That said, there are still some details in a reagent system that would need to be hammered out, so if you have any ideas An, please let me know. For instance, how many different reagents should we have, and what should they be?Possibilities: 1) Only one reagent that every skill from every class uses when they cast skills. A single item purchased at a potion store or something in stacks that every class can use.2) Two reagents. One for magic skills, one for physical skills.3) Multiple reagents. Each race might have its own reagent that it uses for it's two classes. For instance, Humans could have Blast Powder (since they use guns). Elves might have Godstones (special stones with the power of their gods in them). Imps might have Rune Coins (magical coins that have arcane runes on them). Golems might use Soul Gems. Each of these items would preform the same task, they would be consumed when a player uses a skill, but each race would have a unique item to fit their background lore and to make them a little different aesthetically at least.4) Reagents of various power. This is compatible with any of the 3 above systems. This system would make it so that there are at least 2 types of reagent -- one is regular and the other is enchanted to be more powerful. Either can be used for skills, but the enchanted reagent will yield better damage. This could be something we use to let higher level players deal out some extra damage. We need to price the reagents so that even level 1 players can afford them -- but by the time you're 25+, that price will be trivial to you. So perhaps we can offer better reagents to those players so they can choose to spend more money to do more damage. There could be additional tiers added in later updates as the level cap goes up and the enchanted reagents also become trivial in cost.An, while we are going to shy away from the idea of skills being directly tied to items (instead going with skills that cost items to use), there is still some room for your ideas in the game.In addition to these skills, we will almost certainly have usable items in the game. We'll of course have healing and buff potions. If we are going to have an item system that people can use those items in combat, there's no reason we can't have rechargable items as well. We could still use your recharging idea (though the items would probably be held in the inventory -- not slotted in a piece of equipment), and there would certainly be a lot less rechargable items than if we didnt have the skill-reagent system. But we can definitely still have those charging items, many MMOs have had charged items alongside skill systems.
