danroe
Was just wondering what this "Soul Pact" ability for Geylan was when i read the strategy guide against Holy Egg.It told me to use it, because it would do incredible damage, but I do not have that skill, nor do I know where to obtain it.Help is appreciatte
si.ner.ge
oul Pact is Gelyan's fourth ability and is obtained by beating Shadow Master in the main quest. It's the first page in Chapter 5 of the strategy gu
chamomileess
The 2 endurance related perks are also AMAZING for Soul Pact, and if you have a High HP Gely along with those two perks, then there's just 2 words for that: Absolute Domination. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif
blah701
If you have sniper build... that is, if you have more attack than endurance... trigger happy is just as good, and for opponents with tough endurance, armor crusher does just as much damage. Although... it doesn't compare to endurance Soul pact in the end game. If you don't have Soul Pact and you have invested on Gelyan's attack, try armor crusher. It does just as good for holy egg. But in the late games, endurance soul pact is recomended.... although you can beat Tale without
chamomileess
QUOTE (Stragas @ Dec 1 2009, 05:15 PM) quotecWhat Soul pact is that it is essentially a move with a recoil. Approx 15% of your total HP is destroyed for massive 2 damage. It is good for Endurance build because it is based upon how much HP is used to fuel the attack.... in other words, how much HP is 15% of your total. Gelyan's endurance build can use it no problem because of Fool's perk and his enormous hp recovery boost.If you have sniper build... that is, if you have more attack than endurance... trigger happy is just as good, and for opponents with tough endurance, armor crusher does just as much damage. Although... it doesn't compare to endurance Soul pact in the end game. If you don't have Soul Pact and you have invested on Gelyan's attack, try armor crusher. It does just as good for holy egg. But in the late games, endurance soul pact is recomended.... although you can beat Tale without one.QuoteEndQuoteEEndI never really tried Soul Pact because I always went with Power-Gelyan. Maybe I'll try it out somet
blah701
ctually, Endurance Gelyan is much better. But I think what happens is that it overlaps Nera's role in tanking. I had little use for Nera once Gelyan was with Fool.... now that I use it. Try Endurance build, and you will never want sniper again..... although sniper is much easier to follow and stronger in the early games when Moon Waltz Nera doesn't do much dam
chamomileess
QUOTE (Stragas @ Dec 1 2009, 05:41 PM) quotecActually, Endurance Gelyan is much better. But I think what happens is that it overlaps Nera's role in tanking. I had little use for Nera once Gelyan was with Fool.... now that I use it. Try Endurance build, and you will never want sniper again..... although sniper is much easier to follow and stronger in the early games when Moon Waltz Nera doesn't do much damage.QuoteEndQuoteEEndYea, I usually go with a pure power Nera until I get the devine breath, and then I rebuild her once I get Moon waltz. I could do the same for Gely if I wanted to I gues
si.ner.ge
QUOTE (Stragas @ Dec 1 2009, 05:41 PM) quotecActually, Endurance Gelyan is much better. But I think what happens is that it overlaps Nera's role in tanking. I had little use for Nera once Gelyan was with Fool.... now that I use it. Try Endurance build, and you will never want sniper again..... although sniper is much easier to follow and stronger in the early games when Moon Waltz Nera doesn't do much damage.QuoteEndQuoteEEndHuh. May have been the specific runs I was doing (low-level and speed) but I always liked Power Gely better...he does better damage for most of the game and the -End usually isn't a problem. I had to respec him for Cerberus otherwise he'd get turned into...well, jelly on round 1, and found Soul Pact doing rather unimpressive damage.In addition, Armor Crusher can heal you with the Fool's perk/Soul Bond, while with SP you have to rely on Rejuvenating Heart and Grand Blessing vs. field attacks/ranged counterattacks. On the bright side, he never gets mele
EternalLurker
even counting Soul Pact's health loss. With Gelyan's central Red Perk that gives him a massive leech effect, it may be more comparable. However, Power Gelyans are still prone to dying against field attack spam, since they can't retaliate against field attacks to drain health, and field attacks also negate their advantage of incredible range since most have infinite range. In general, the weakness of Power Gelyans is a powerful field attack, while the weakness of Endurance Gelyans is a high dependence on Energy for damage (Power Gelyans can always make do with Trigger Happy in a pinch). The former is a perpetual weakness which no one except perhaps the High Priestess can counter, while the latter shouldn't be hard for most Sisily builds and many Neraine builds to fix due to their high Magic scores. That makes Endurance Gelyans overall more consistent for most parties, but it does depend on your Sisily and especially your Neraine. That's the thing that makes Ge.Ne.Sis' party customization fun: you're not building but (at least if you're doing it right), so builds which seem inferior to others may be better for the party as a wh
chamomileess
QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Dec 2 2009, 06:32 AM) quotecA Power Gelyan's healing with Armor Crusher + the Fool's aura is fairly impressive but isn't up to the standards of an Endurance Gelyan, even counting Soul Pact's health loss. With Gelyan's central Red Perk that gives him a massive leech effect, it may be more comparable. However, Power Gelyans are still prone to dying against field attack spam, since they can't retaliate against field attacks to drain health, and field attacks also negate their advantage of incredible range since most have infinite range. In general, the weakness of Power Gelyans is a powerful field attack, while the weakness of Endurance Gelyans is a high dependence on Energy for damage (Power Gelyans can always make do with Trigger Happy in a pinch). The former is a perpetual weakness which no one except perhaps the High Priestess can counter, while the latter shouldn't be hard for most Sisily builds and many Neraine builds to fix due to their high Magic scores. That makes Endurance Gelyans overall more consistent for most parties, but it does depend on your Sisily and especially your Neraine. That's the thing that makes Ge.Ne.Sis' party customization fun: you're not building but (at least if you're doing it right), so builds which seem inferior to others may be better for the party as a whole.QuoteEndQuoteEEndWow.I seriously never looked at it that way O_OI was always building characters with a high damage output. I haven't really looked at building a party that was internally dependant on other characters. My parties always looked something like:Power GelyanPower Nera--->Divine Breath--->Moon Waltz NeraPure Magic SisiO_oAt least Sisi and the magician could handle my massive energy demand, along with Emi for that as w
EternalLurker
ut lemme guess, your Moon Waltz build usually uses 18 or more Agility, ri
chamomileess
QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Dec 2 2009, 10:20 PM) quotecBut lemme guess, your Moon Waltz build usually uses 18 or more Agility, right?QuoteEndQuoteEEndYep, exactly 18. I've tried leaving it at 16 before, but I found that the 4 extra magic/power isn't worth losing an extra t
EternalLurker
So, you see, there's an example of how characters need to support each other. Your party and tactics are less Energy-dependent so 18 Agility is preferable for you (and probably 20 later on).And this kinda brings us back to the main topic... ^_^ Soul Pact is a powerful raw-damage ability, meaning it works well even against enemies with high Black Resistance (Soul Pact and Armor Crusher both slaughter opponents that rely on Defense, but only Soul Pact ignores Black Resistance as well). It works well in a party that tends to focus on Black, such as one that uses Death (for more than just her Soulburst), or one that uses the Magician for Energy Transfer instead of damage, or in my case one that uses a Soul Bonded Rod Twirling Fool. Since Power Gelyans have no good method for beating Black Resistance, the other party members need to be able to dish out non-Black damage if you're not using Soul P
blah701
But I have to agree that Endurance build is slightly more useful for late-games, and even during games. And Soul pack does more bang per attack than Armor crusher or Trigger happy, although in certain cases... such as low black resistance enemies... trigger happy shows better offensive capabilities. As for Sniper build.... which is basically attack build, in case you didn't know... Gelyan can attack from much further range and becomes more artillery role. This means that when Nera is gone, you are pretty much screwed. Endurance also allows Nera to build straight Moon Waltz instead of changing to Moon Waltz build at the end with Tale. In short, Gelyan's Endurance does more wonders than Sniper Gelyan... but you also have to keep in mind that the build makes Gelyan attack less, since he has to actually move around. If you like Gelyan's heavy artillery support, then I still suggest Sniper build.... and for those that have high black, use Nera+Death to finish it off. I also think that those who have high black resist also has weak white resist.... so maybe Gelyan's jellyshot will do the trick...Well, regardless, EL is right. Also keep in mind that Soul Pact is practically useless as Jelly Shot as Sniper build. I suggest jelly shot+ trigger happy or armor crusher for sniper Gelyan. But always remember to keep Nera healthy when you have Sniper Gelyan.... otherwise you might loose almost won g
EternalLurker
As I said, Ge.Ne.Sis is about building parties, not characters. Of Endurance and Power builds for Gelyan, each has , and each has an optimal party. An Endurance Gelyan is . He thus makes for a perfect addition to a party dependent on ranged offense hiding behind him (Sisily, the Magician, Emi, and potentially The Fool or ). A Power Gelyan _is_ the aforementioned ranged offense that needs to hide behind a stronger meatshield. If you're confident in your meatshields (a Moon Waltzing Neraine and a Soul Bonded Fool, both protected by a Lightning Aura, can work together to handle every possible type of damage), Power Gelyans are a good party addition, with .Of course, there are other builds than merely these two. Against enemies with high dodge, Eagle Eyes can be invaluable; I've crushed Saber with ease when playing around with that. (Try Eagle Eyes + Sniper Sense on a Soul Bonded Gelyan and some awesome things happen.) However, the later perks in that tree aren't as useful. What I don't like about them is that they weaken Armor Crusher, so since they already take points away from Gelyan's Power his damage output becomes pretty pitiful. An, if you're reading this, could you look into making Falcon and Beholder Eyes not make Armor Crusher useless? That's pretty much the only way that perk tree can stand up to the other two; as it is, Gelyan doesn't have as much versatility in character building as Sisily and Neraine
si.ner.ge
QUOTE (EternalLurker @ Dec 3 2009, 05:03 PM) quotecAn Endurance Gelyan is . He thus makes for a perfect addition to a party dependent on ranged offense hiding behind him (Sisily, the Magician, Emi, and potentially The Fool or ). A Power Gelyan _is_ the aforementioned ranged offense that needs to hide behind a stronger meatshield. If you're confident in your meatshields (a Moon Waltzing Neraine and a Soul Bonded Fool, both protected by a Lightning Aura, can work together to handle every possible type of damage), Power Gelyans are a good party addition, with .QuoteEndQuoteEEndAh, that might explain it. I never really saw the sense in using Gely as a "tank" character. Since Nera is forced to melee and thus she is going to draw attacks even with optimal party positioning, I figured I may as well designate her default tank, especially considering the number of maps with chokepoints (or single bosses). Gely was almost always farther back than Sisi even.quoteoQUOTE quotecOf course, there are other builds than merely these two. Against enemies with high dodge, Eagle Eyes can be invaluable; I've crushed Saber with ease when playing around with that. (Try Eagle Eyes + Sniper Sense on a Soul Bonded Gelyan and some awesome things happen.)QuoteEndQuoteEEndAgility I can live with, since I raised Agility inordinately during my first playthrough, but I don't like how the Eyes perks force Gely to invest in Magic (which adds nothing to his offensive power and which the girls do much much better).quoteoQUOTE quotecGelyan doesn't have as much versatility in character building as Sisily and Neraine do.QuoteEndQuoteEEndWait, there's a build for Sisi besides the Pure Magic build? /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif
EternalLurker
1)Neraine alone isn't a reliable tank in all situations. With my luck she's not a reliable tank in any, since her meatshielding is based on chance (dodging rather than just taking hits) and luck absolutely hates me, but more to the point a Magic Neraine can't handle accurate ranged physical attacks well while a Power Neraine can't handle accurate ranged magical attacks very well, especially Yellow ones. Having more than one meatshield is pretty much a necessity unless you're inordinately lucky or have figured out the maps and enemy AIs sufficiently well that you can predict where they're going to go and lock down their movements accordingly, and that's not viable on a first playthrough. Besides, aside from White attacks Gelyan makes a better tank than Neraine by far. He's simply a ridiculously awesome tank. Even a Power Gelyan can, when Soul Bonded, become unkillable.2)The Eyes perks are powerful because none of them directly affect stats, so as I said they combo extremely well with Soul Bond, as they'll still all take effect on a Soul Bonded Gelyan. Therefore, Gelyan's stats don't really matter after the Soul Bond, and since he won't get off an attack the Soul Bond (he'll be summoning a Tarot), he might as well have his stats be in Magic to give the party some starting Energy. The stat prereqs are fine. But the problem is that they offer 300 Defense Piercing, which makes Armor Crusher weaker, not stronger, and that's bad. That's the reason they aren't viable. If that were fixed they'd be comparable in power to the other paths.3)Sisily is very effective when built with pure Magic, since that fuels most of her damage output, creates an awesome battery for the party, and increases her Resist against field attacks to make up for her crappy Endurance. But the Blood perks can turn her into a beastly combatant. Reducing opponents' Agility by 4 is incredibly powerful, guaranteeing that even opponents with 20 Agility are reduced to 3 attacks against her. The Guard tree creates the ultimate anti-magic character, and they, like Gelyan's Eyes perks, combo incredibly well with Soul Bond, making her easily capable of reflecting magical attacks and surviving physical attacks while still healing back to full each turn due to an extremely strong Warp Assault (for 0 Energy no less). Thus she has the potential to be more powerful than the Magician + a pure Magic Sisily combined, which means the Magician can just spam Energy Transfer to make up for her reduced utility as a battery, and in the long run that actually creates Energy for the party than a pure Magic Sisily since she's using no Energy with her attacks. So yes, Sisily has plenty of options. Personally, in part two I'll either go for a Divine Retribution + Soul Bond build or take Basilisk Blood, Gorgon Blood, and Holy Soul for a total of -4 enemy Agility, -25% + 150 enemy Resist, +7 Magic, and +25% Energy accumulation. You should take note of the fact that Sisily's Red perks give her 30 Magic at level 20 with only 11 stat points put into Magic, so you're going to need to spend 27 points elsewhere anyway; why not put some into Agil
chamomileess
Doesn't soul-bonding Gely at some point in late game give him LESS power than he would have? (Since his soul-bonded power would be based on Death's power, right?)Then again, the Fool's HP leech combined Death's HP leech after soul-bonding ought to make up for the reduced damage in terms of being a tan
blah701
ah.... Soul bond gives units Death's attributes plus her ability to leech. Her weakness of life drain also is transfered. I never really used it on Gelyan, since I soul burst her right away nowadays, but yes, that does happen where at some point in the game you will have less attribute when you bond character. Hmm.... i should try it on Endurance Gely to see if it actually reduces it en
EternalLurker
As I stated above, however, it works quite well for the other builds depending on the situation. A Power Gelyan in a tough spot can be turned into a tank instantly, and he still has the massive range his Perks give. And I already outlined how awesome it is for for an Eyes build, or at least would be if An decides to change that armor-piercing is
